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SG-1 10.03: The Pegasus Project

Overall, I found a lot of little things in this ep very satisfying – even if I realized at the end that it hadn’t *quite* moved things forward all that much. But who cares? It moved a couple of things forward, and I can forgive it the rest because part of the point was simply to *have the crossover*. And I *HEART* crossovers, so I’m always going to love that. And it make me laugh out loud a lot.

Loved getting to see Daniel finally getting to Atlantis. Loved that the show gave us a quiet moment just with him and getting to see his face as they approach the city.

(I did feel the absence of Jack, somewhat – but the thing is that the other 3 or so times that Daniel has tried to get to Atlantis, it would have been without Jack, too. I sort of got the feeling on Jack’s part that that was a big reason he didn’t want Daniel to go, protectively speaking. But I didn’t get a huge sense of wistfulness on Daniel’s part, for that reason. All of his inner expectations about how he would arrive at Atlantis would have to have known that it wouldn’t include Jack. In this particular case, he’s lucky his team was beside him for it; the other times he tried to go, they wouldn’t have been. So I’ve never seen Atlantis as this thing that should have been the goal of old SG-1, to get there, or that Daniel would feel that way. It didn’t weird me out for Daniel to be arriving at Atlantis without Jack at his side. It’s going to weird me out more that… no, I think I won’t go there spoiler-wise, in this post… )

I am not one to be all over the Daniel/Cameron subtext (because I’m such a J/D girl), but *dude* -- WHAT was Cameron using to TICKLE DANIEL’S EAR and WHAT *WAS* THAT???? And OMG could that have been… slashier? Wow. (And since I’m such a J/D girl, what I was mostly thinking was, watch out, Cameron; Jack is still very capable of flattening you, if he finds out. Don’t think that Vala wouldn’t rat you out, either.)

I actually kind of liked the moderately low-key way that they played Vala pointedly reminding them that she doesn’t get Earth cultural references. It was different from the way they played Teal’c’s reactions over the years, and different from the way they have sometimes played other non-Earth-human reactions, inasmuch as she clearly *knows* she is missing something. She’s not befuddled by the gibberish; she knows the gibberish has a point, she just doesn’t know what it *is*.

Loved that the briefing was almost surreal… as audience, I’m so familiar with Atlantis; I’m just not familiar with seeing THOSE faces there, around the table, walking around, except in fanfic! I loved the unexpected lines of connection and alliances (between Sheppard and Sam, for example) – that is what I most love about seeing crossovers. What connections get formed? What alliances are made? What frictions are there?

Let me get this out of the way: I wasn’t that thrilled with Rodney being the butt of all jokes. Some jokes, sure. I’ve seen others mention this too – I would have liked to see a Rodney that demonstrated how far he has come on SGA. I guess that, to me, that would be a Rodney who’s a little more socialized, a little more used to the give and take of being challenged or teased, a Rodney with a little more real self-confidence (rather than bluster) and backbone. *shrug*

The lemon thing was funny for one joke, perhaps. It felt really off to me, when Mitchell whipped it out later – there was a comedic timing to that scene, but conceptually it just didn’t work for me. It would have worked better if Rodney had deflated it by rolling his eyes and going “Hah very hah, yes, you’re very funny” and then just moved along.

I get what folks have said about how if you put a person back into a certain social situation, no matter what progress he’s made since, he can regress to old patterns. I also get that SG-1 doesn’t have the same reasons to tolerate Rodney as the SGA folks do. But I didn’t mind Mitchell being a hardass towards Rodney. I guess what I would have liked to see, besides more Rodney backbone (to show that he’s learned better how to handle himself with military types trying to intimidate him), would have been more of a genuine connection with Sam. Or even Rodney getting one better of Sam. I know this was Sam’s show, not Rodney’s, but given their history of interaction, I think it would have been fitting. Though I kind of liked how they came together at the end.

Oh. And? Sam? Instead of merely shuddering about the idea of Rodney hallucinating some version of you that helped to save his life, but about whom you’re afraid to hear more? Perhaps you can remember how you did the exact same thing in “Grace”? With all 3 of your guys? How good a kisser *WAS* fantasy!Jack, Sam? Huh?

(Especially when the ep titles almost make you think that the writers knew that Rodney’s hallucinating-Sam ep was similar to Sam’s hallucinating-the-guys ep – “Grace” and “Grace Under Pressure”, respectively. But, granted – I don’t imagine that Sam then went and chirpily TOLD all of the guys about what she’d hallucinated about them; *especially* Jack.)

Okay… moving along… I wasn’t that satisfied, either, with explaining Teal’c’s absence from the trip by saying that he “had” to be anchoring the secondary-Gate at the SuperGate. For all that he was required to do in the tel’tak, that could have been anyone assigned to sit there and babysit that end of things. His little snark about it was nice. But it merely brought home to me that the writers could no more think of a way for him to contribute to the action on Atlantis than they could think of any substantive way for Teyla or Ronon to be involved, which… *SIGH*

I will only cut the writers some slack on that because yes, it is always difficult to juggle big combined casts in a crossover, especially when you are by necessity limited in the story you can tell. (There wasn’t room for the sort of B and C plots that would have involved everyone that a fanfic writer can get away with.)

I like the commander of the Odyssey, but – and here is an ongoing complaint of mine – I dislike the way the commanders of all of the ships become wallpaper when SG-1 is aboard. The only commander of any ship who I think holds his own as a character and who makes me believe that it is *HIS* ship, dammit, is of coures Caldwell with the Daedalus. Emerson? You would do well to study Caldwell a bit.

I thought that the moment where Daniel finally tells Morgan that the game is up, and her eyes cut over to him and she addresses him, was a great moment. Although you could almost see her wanting to talk out the side of her mouth all, “Yes, thank you so much for *drawing attention* to my subtle attempts to hide the fact that I am helping you!” I did, however, like getting to see Daniel read her the riot act. Go, Daniel!

telepresence remarked that in the end, this got us nowhere with enlisting the help of the Ancients. I’m not sure I agree. I think we learned something – that there is a faction amongst the Ascended Ancients who clearly want to interfere. That that faction does not at this point outnumber the Others who are still being candy-assed about it. But still, this strikes me as hopeful. A faction can grow. That balance may change. Or that faction may still band together to do something, before this is all over.

I thought it was VERY useful for us to find out that there’s more than just a scattered couple of Ascendeds who feel this way.

But Daniel seems to feel the way Telepresence did, and I can only think that this may mesh in with things I’d already been thinking might lead to… Stuff Later in the Season.

We had a bad moment when my_tallest pointed out that the result of their Big Plan (get the SuperGate connected to a black hole, thus keeping it open and connected and denying use of it to the Orii ships) is… er, now we’ve turned the SuperGate into another black hole in our galaxy, into which the Milky Way can be sucked, a bit of a time. Because basically we have created (on whatever exponentially greater scale due to the size of the SuperGate, if it works like that) exactly the problem that they spent the entire original episode “A Matter of Time” trying to FIX.

But then I reasoned it away thusly: the peril in the original ep was due to the idea of a black hole’s sucking forces being located right on (or immediately below) the surface of our own planet. That was what was making it very, very bad, in an immediate sense. In a larger sense, the Milky Way already has black holes. The black hole in the original ep formed during that ep and that was within our galaxy. There are others. They don’t threaten us in any immediate sense and they don’t really threaten the galaxy as a whole. By connecting the SuperGate to one, yes, we have essentially suddenly dropped a black hole where one wasn’t, before. But I don’t think it will have any lasting effects that we would ever see in the span of recorded history. It may have a cosmic effect, but I don’t think we’ll be capable of noticing it. And we may “fix” it or at least stop the spread of the effect by blowing up the SuperGate at some future point in time. So, okay.

And? Further awesome suggestion – wouldn’t it be great if one of the remaining Orii ships in the Milky Way came to find out what’s wrong with the SuperGate, and got trapped there by time-dilation or even got sucked through backwards in slow-motion? (I say “backwards” since that wormhole is *from* Pegasus *to* the Milky Way; but in AMoT, it was the same deal, but the black hole was still capable of sucking the Mountain and then Colorado and then Earth back through.) Which would mean not only did they block off the Gate to stop more Orii ships from coming, and not only did they knock off a bonus Orii ship through good luck and good timing, but they could glue-trap yet another Orii ship. Cool!

Telepresence also wisely remarked: why have we never tried to build what would essentially be a Kawoosh “gun”? Or, why have we not tried to use the kawoosh as a weapon more often? We have never seen anything that could defend against it. Granted, a normal Gate’s kawoosh is relatively small, and we’ve seen it put to “practical” use on occasion. It was *great* seeing the SuperGate’s kawoosh taking out an Orii ship, though.

Now, apparently, MS is going to be absent from the next two eps – or at least that is the report. I sort of expected the end of this ep to set that up, perhaps; saying that Daniel was going to stick around on Atlantis a little longer and then catch a ride back on the Daedalus would have made sense to me. But they didn’t, so oh well. I wonder how they will explain his absence, then? I guess we’ll see.




SGA 3.03: Irresistible

In the Stargate franchise, there have always been humor eps that I was in tune with, and those that I really was OUT of tune with and that grated on me or that made me cringe. I am afraid that this… was one of the latter.

But *aside* from the fact that Richard Kind’s performance largely made me cringey, and that, as much fun as the cast was clearly having, the way the others were played in reaction to him made me cringey too… there were things I kind of liked about the ep. In fact, if they hadn’t played part of the idea for laughs, and if the lead had been played by a different guy, I might have liked the ep a lot better. Because there was a very, very creepy concept under there, and at times it shone through, and at times even in this ep, I *felt* it loud and clear. But the execution of the ep was just a little to OTT funny-funny for my tastes.

(Please note, I know that this is just me and my personal reaction. I mean – look at the SG-1 ep “Urgo”. I love that ep. It works for me. Even Dom DeLuise, who normally doesn’t, works for me in it. And I know it doesn’t work for other people. I can’t explain it. Sometimes SG humor hits me just right, and sometimes I can tell that the makers of the show think something’s a riot – Felger leaps to mind – but I don’t. *shrug*)

Something we all did like very much: that they were careful to have the male characters be just as fawning and gooey over Lucius as the female characters; more, in fact. So, good, that helped to minimize the skeevy “let’s talk about marriage” thing that he had going with the women. (And the ULTRA skeevy way he got six wives. Yuck!)

I liked the flashes when Richard Kind would hint at a darker edge beneath Lucius. I thought it was undercut a bit by the fact that in the end, we find out that he was just a baker with very poor judgement about right and wrong, and using people and subverting their will, not someone *actually* very dangerous. There were some moments when they could have hinted at that – moments when Lucius was pushing things, and on the edge of tantrum. Or when he would lean over and say, “I think something is wrong with *him*”, or moments when he would lose the smile and the creepiness would come through. Those were good, and effective for me even with that actor. But I still didn’t quite feel a sharp sense of danger underlying it. Even though, conceptually, there certainly was.

Why why why WHY why would they ever let Carson go to that planet ALONE, especially after LAST WEEK? Aaaigh. I thought John was similarly unforesightful and kinda dumb not to expect Rodney to succumb, if he left Rodney alone on Atlantis with no backup whatsoever, once they’d largely realized what was causing the nuttiness. John had had ample time before that to learn the lesson that you leave people alone with Lucius, and they go nuts. Unless he had helped Rodney lock himself in, I don’t see how he expected Rodney to avoid nutty people who were quite likely to seek him out and try to make him part of their cult.

And again I felt like the writers forget that Elizabeth is a career diplomat who has in her time been presented with stupider tchotchkes then a gourd with a candle in it. She HAS to possess a better diplomatic poker-face than THAT. Please. Though perhaps we can ascribe it to the fact that she didn’t consider Lucius someone she really needed to please, so she didn’t feel she had to bother hiding her true feelings.

I liked some of the little digs and little throwaway lines, though – the joke about John’s hair, for example. And we all LOVED it when John punched Beckett and barked, “BUCK UP, Carson!” (That moment written for Willam S. my_tallest of Boston, Massachusetts.)

I liked that Atlantis cured his people of the problem and then sent him home to face the music. Because he desperately needed to be made accountable for what he’d done.

I thought that the bit at the end with Rodney and John was… one of those things SG always does where they play something for laughs that is actually really kind of unfunny and skeevy when you stop to think about it.



Eureka: Many Happy Returns

Remains watchable, if not exactly blowing us away.

Didn’t like that the premiere’s Big Problem was pretty much a dangerous energy source wandering around the town, and this week’s Big Problem was…. a dangerous energy source wandering around the town. But it was nice that they were connected and that they addressed continuity and all.

The Sherriff’s (I can’t actually bring myself to call him either “Jack” or “Carter”, yet) “hah hah very funny” schtick seemed forced to me, and is going to get old quickly if they keep it up. What? You took this job without sufficiently getting yourself into the mindset that THE TOWN IS WEIRD, WEIRD STUFF HAPPENS? Dude, you need to make peace with that, like, NOW. Explain it to yourself however you like – someone says “ghost” to you and you be skeptical that it’s actually a “ghost”, but you should immediately proceed with the assumption that “it may not be a ghost as such, but it’s something, probably something with a wacky scientific explanation behind it”. The premiere should already have amply demonstrated to you that these things can be DANGEROUS.

So, that said – what I really disliked was when he brushed Lupo off the SECOND time. Because, also? Dude? Have you not noticed that your deputy is competent and professional and what’s more, she’s been in this town longer than you? So maybe you should LISTEN TO HER?

Plus? You’re a sherriff in a small town… that has a lot of wacked-out crises. You know what that means? That means you NEVER blow off a call, I don’t care how much you want to go home or sleep or whatever the hell. Sorry, man – you don’t REALLY get to be “off-duty”. You should have understood that also before you took the job.

I realize that perhaps the show is letting us see him learn these things. But I would feel better if it seemed like he had the brains to figure them out for himself a bit more, before he agreed to take the job.

I’ll say this: I don’t care how nice it is, I don’t know that you could get me to take a house that’s underground, with no windows. I guess he feels differently, but… ugh.

Am still uncharmed by them shoving this Sherriff/Alison pairing at us. I just don’t get any whiff of chemistry there.

I’m sorry to have lost former Evil Scientist guy, Warren. But I like the new guy, Alison’s husband, whatever his name is. (Note to those who have been wondering: well, there’s your slash pairing, right there.) I like the actor so far. HE has more chemistry with Alison than the Sherriff does.

The whole cloning thing was REALLY creepy.

How is it that Walter was such an expert in genetics that he was able to create an accelerated clone of his wife… and also create the time-dislocation gyroscope thingy that he made in the pilot? That’s pretty multi-discipline-talented, even for a show about geniuses.

I continue to like Henry, and I especially liked the bit with the velcro patch and his multiple jobs in the town. That’s a running joke that I won’t mind.

Some of the bits with Sarah the House were in fact kinda funny.

I like the Sherriff’s face, but wow, is that bad hair. I still like him better when he’s freaking out than anything else.

Comments

( 22 comments — Leave a comment )
oceana_
Jul. 29th, 2006 08:42 pm (UTC)
The lemon scene was very deep and symbolic. John handing Cameron the lemon in the first place is a warning. He says, you can have Rodney for a while, but the only mortal danger you will put him in is a lemon. And it better be my lemon!

Cameron showing the lemon to Rodney later is even deeper. It's clearly a symbol for the victory of the military above science by means of cultivated citrus fruits.

And I totally think it's okay to overinterpret TV shows if they don't make sense. ;-)
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 06:08 pm (UTC)
Uh-huh. ;-)
jenlev
Jul. 29th, 2006 08:43 pm (UTC)
that was a lovely shot of daniel watching atlantis. so many layers played in his expression. and vala would *so* rat cameron out. too funny how daniel slapped his ear and then *looked* at his hand to see what he expected he'd smushed.

and good point about how vala responded to cultural references. especially in the briefing scene. daniel looked as if he was having a lot of fun watching it all too.

i would have liked teal'c to have been there, but he got to have a teal'c-dance-o-victory at the end. ;)

and daniel's speech to le fay was quite something. also, the way that moment when her eyes shifted stretched was well done.

good points about factions. this could be quite something. and i love the idea about the supergate as a gigantic fly ori-catcher.

and huh, i didn't realize daniel's absence was so soon....but even after just three episodes the season feels as if it's going fast. i wonder how they'll attend to the exposition regarding daniel.
~~~~~~~~~
richard kind made my hair stand on end. but i'm thinking he was supposed to? despite the humor i couldn't forget what a creep that character was, so it dominated everything else.

and a big yay for urgo, love that episode so much. maybe because it doesn't have that same dark underbelly that this one did....that no matter how funny it all was this was a 'person' without a conscience.

they ought to never let carson alone on a planet again. ever.

as for eureka...that house is nothing but trouble. ;)
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 06:12 pm (UTC)
I think you're right that Lucius was meant to make your hair stand on end. And at various points, he did so effectively even for me.

I just got a feeling that at other times, they wanted the audience to forget how creepy/squicky he was, and just laugh and squee over how silly the characters were being.

And my problem was that the concept was *too* squicky/creepy for me to forget about it and enjoy those parts on any level; and seeing the characters be silly in that way and in that context doesn't make me happy. It just makes me cringe.

*shrug* And that's the way it goes, with humor eps sometimes. They work for you or they don't, and there's not much you can do about it. I just thought this would have been a really effectively creepy (because I don't *mind* creepy for its own sake) ep if they'd played it straight, that's all.
jenlev
Jul. 30th, 2006 11:48 pm (UTC)
i think you're right about how they wanted the audience to forget about hte squick...which didn't happen for me. it's intriguing to think about *why* they wanted us to forget.

what that says about a thinking process confuses me a bit...especially because richard kind did such a great job of making lucius squicky.

*hugs*
moonshayde
Jul. 29th, 2006 08:47 pm (UTC)
Very much enjoyed the crossover ep. Loved it, actually. Still can't wait for Jack, though.

Liked the SGA ep. I skimmed over the creepiness factor. But I expect these people to be stupid now, so I ddin't eeven bother to nitpick. Really, they are so stupid it's out of character for them not to be.

Eureka...is fun. I enjoyed it, though it's just a casual thing for me. Just like I like BSG but that is also a causal thing for me. (BSG is a little too dark for my tastes.)

I hate Jack Carter and Allison. I am not an anti-ship person but why not let the characters just do their own thing and then see if there is chemsitry? I hate forced ship.

I love Henry. And the Jack/Sarah --whoa deja vu -- parts were funny.
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 06:14 pm (UTC)
See, that's the thing -- and this is just me, it doesn't have to be you -- I didn't want to skim over the creepiness factor. I like creepiness when it is wielded effectively. And I thought that the concept underlying the ep was very creepy indeed and could have been very effective. It was because of that, in part, that it didn't work for me as a humor ep. Because once I'd noticed the creepiness, I couldn't put it aside.
raven_lore
Jul. 29th, 2006 10:10 pm (UTC)
Don't think that Vala wouldn't rat you out, either.

I love the idea of Vala as Jack's spy!

As for Eureka, I might be wrong, but I'm not sure Jack Carter had a choice about taking the promotion.
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 06:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, maybe you're right. I was unclear on that. But partly that's because the show was pretty unclear about it, I thought. In other words, I didn't think it was the most effective structure in the world for a pilot to jump from "it's a promotion, enjoy it" to "now he's putting on the uniform for his first day on the job as sherriff in the town", with nothing in between. Didn't work for me, left too many questions about how he went from there to here unanswered. *shrug*

Still. Even if that's the case and he kind of *had* to go be the sherriff (rather than choosing it after thinking about it carefully) -- I still maintain that if he had been *watching* the pilot, he should at least have learned that [a] wacky stuff that seems impossible happens, and [b] it's not to be taken lightly, it can easily be deadly.

And if he's smart enough and his thinking is so flexible that he's supposed to be such a great choice as sherriff for this town that he can/should be dragooned into it... then he'd impress me more if his first apparent actions (onscreen anyway) weren't to blow off things that, like it or not, it's now his job to pay attention to.

Very likely, they will remedy this soon and it won't be a big deal. It's a nitpick with the structure of this ep rather than something I see as a humongous problem. I'm waiting to see how it goes.
raven_lore
Aug. 2nd, 2006 05:36 pm (UTC)
I haven't seen yesterday episode yet, so I don't know if they have worked out this and other nitpicks people have been noticing, but I hope they have. I like Henry and the concept idea a lot. :)

Anyway you're right, the show wasn't clear on how he actually ended up as sheriff. And I agree with you that, in any case, he reacted to the call in the wrong way. What I found more confusing was that at the end of the pilot he was totally cool with Henry's experiment landing in his office, so he seemed to have adapted. I suppose it is just that the writers haven't a clear idea of how to write him yet.
green_grrl
Jul. 29th, 2006 10:49 pm (UTC)
And since I’m such a J/D girl, what I was mostly thinking was, watch out, Cameron; Jack is still very capable of flattening you, if he finds out.

Ha ha! Yes! Totally! Like this.

I like the commander of the Odyssey, but – and here is an ongoing complaint of mine – I dislike the way the commanders of all of the ships become wallpaper when SG-1 is aboard.

Yes, starting with that stupid episode in season 6 when they were stranded on that planet with a long-buried stargate. Jack and the commander were at constant odds about who was in charge. Aargh.

Also, totally agree on hating the Rodney disrespect. We know he's grown a lot in the past two years. Let him show it. And thank you for the Carter smackdown, because her Grace episode was so much worse! Aargh more!
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 06:36 pm (UTC)
Ha ha! Yes! Totally! Like this.

Heee! Somehow, I had managed to miss that one! Thanks for the link. Yes, very much like that. :)

Yes, starting with that stupid episode in season 6 when they were stranded on that planet with a long-buried stargate. Jack and the commander were at constant odds about who was in charge. Aargh.

Ah yes, "Memento", which is in my top-5 of "Most Disliked SG1 Episodes Ever", and may in fact be #1. :P There are so many, many things to dislike about it. And that indeed is one of them. That was the first ep showing the Prometheus under somebody's command, and therefore from the very start they undermined the idea because there was SG-1, muddying the issue. Bah.

And thank you for the Carter smackdown, because her Grace episode was so much worse! Aargh more!

Well, I would say that it's just about on par.

Inasmuch as Sam kissing fantasy!Jack was at least supposed to be in service of her working through issues with regard to whether he is in fact what she wants in RL or is something she can have, etc. (Depending on whether you take that kiss as "let me see what I'm missing" or as a wistful farewell to that concept.) Sam's issues WRT Jack are more complicated than Rodney's issues WRT Sam -- in the latter case, there have been straightforward exchanges between Sam and Rodney so that Rodney can be in no doubt that Sam has told him "no".

So I actually have a teensy bit more respect for concussed Sam kissing a fantasy!Jack in order to work out issues of what she wants that are separate from the issue of what Jack himself wants; than I have any respect for Rodney hallucinating up a version of Sam who will kiss him when he knows without question that the real one does not want to. If that makes sense.

(Let's also mention that Jack is not innocent; he has taken his own opportunity to experimentally kiss a Sam -- who wasn't even a fantasy! -- and then hit a reset button. Even if you make some allowances for Jack having some possible not-in-his-right-mind problems at the time.)

Plus, Jack just has not said "no" to Sam as clearly as Sam has said "no" to Rodney -- I mean, that's a great deal of the ongoing problem with Sam/Jack in canon, anyway. And to me there's always just something a little more skeevy when it's a man who is using a fantasy to make a woman who has told him "no" more compliant to his wishes.

And finally -- I do have to give Sam some points for not *telling* the guys about it. I dock Rodney some points for not realizing that there is no good way for that to come across to the woman you hallucinated about.
green_grrl
Jul. 30th, 2006 07:05 pm (UTC)
Hee! I can't believe you hadn't read Scratching An Itch before. It's one of my faves. Just -- yes! :-)

OK, points taken on the Graces -- to an extent. I just hate Grace (on my worst 5 list) so much and I hate the way Rodney was treated in The Pegasus Project so much. Though I will argue:

there have been straightforward exchanges between Sam and Rodney so that Rodney can be in no doubt that Sam has told him "no"

In Redemption Sam did kiss his cheek and hint that she did have some level of attraction to him -- it's not like she hasn't messed with his head when he can remember it.

I dock Rodney some points for not realizing that there is no good way for that to come across to the woman you hallucinated about.

Yes, well, part of Rodney's charm is his complete lack of social skills. I think he was trying to say something nice and started talking before he'd thought it all the way through. *pets the nerd*
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 08:09 pm (UTC)
That's why I don't dock him for it more. :) I can tell that he was actually trying to say something nice, rather than trying from the outset to be smarmy. And that's why I think Sam could have cut him some slack on that, because hello, pot, kettle.

I'm not sure if "Grace" is in my top 5 most disliked, or not. Hmm. I mean, I'm not all that fond of it. But I think there are ones I've disliked more. (Hmm. Memento. Sight Unseen. Icon... and probably others from S8-S10 that I am blocking from my immediate memory.)
green_grrl
Jul. 30th, 2006 08:38 pm (UTC)
Really, you don't like Sight Unseen? It's one of the few from s6 I actively like. (I love the way Jack adopts to society's damaged strays.) I actively disliked Prphecy, and Disclosure is the worst of the clip shows by far. I don't mind Icon at all. Emancipation is too strident. Show and Tell I bet is the episode they wish they'd never made. Prodigy is annoying. Failsafe is kind of a stinker. Avatar is dumb... Can I have a worst 10? ;-)
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 09:56 pm (UTC)
:) Well, any of the clip eps automatically lose points, and I agree, of them, Disclosure is the flat-out most annoying to me.

Emancipation is a gimme; it's from so early that you can just dismiss it as teething problems for the new show. (To be honest, from the same era, I find "Cor Ai" to be too strident as well.) But it doesn't actively bother me.

I'd say the same thing about Prophecy, Prodigy, Failsafe -- they have flaws, but they don't make me want to rant. Other than thinking the girl is obnoxious (which she's intended to be, at least), I rather *like* Prodigy.

And actually, I kinda liked Avatar, aside from its obvious flaws. I should say, its obvious flaws didn't bug me so much that I couldn't overlook them and take away from it the things here and there that I sort of liked.

Also, I kind of like Show and Tell. ;-) Or, again -- I know it has flaws, but they don't bug me enough to outweigh the things in it that I kinda liked.

Sight Unseen? I see what you mean about that bit at the end, but... I can't forgive the ep its set-up. It makes me rant. It's an ep that simply doesn't exist without most of SG-1 plus Hammond acting horribly irresponsibly and what's worse, doing dumb things when prior experience on the show itself has taught them to know better.

Thus, the reason Sight Unseen actively makes me sort of angry is that one of the things I have always loved about the show was that the characters often *do* learn from their experiences, and then they implement procedures and failsafes that are meant to address the problem they encountered. The way we tend to put it in my circle of friends is a paraphrase of the line from Galaxy Quest: do you WATCH this show? What I have always loved about SG-1 is that frequently, they *do* act as if they watch their own show.

Sight Unseen as written requires Jack, Sam, Teal'c, and Hammond to act as though they've never watched their own show. And not -- IMO -- in a way that's "everyone makes a little mistake sometimes"; in a way that is huge and fundamental and almost criminally stupid. I give Jonas a break since he was new (although he was supposed to have read and memorized all of the mission reports), but he also does not cover himself in glory later when he exhibits some idiotic methods of scientific inquiry.

The set-up in Sight Unseen bugs me so much that it makes me rant, and I have to practically ignore the episode's exisitence, because there's just no way I can square the characters' behavior with their "reality" as characters.

Now... other than that? I grant you, Jack's interaction with that guy was kind of sweet. And the underlying concept of the bugs and all was interesting. I just wish that Kindler as a writer wasn't so lazy. If you want to write that concept, fine. Come up with a way for it to happen that doesn't require smart characters to lose their brains.

(He wrote Memento, too. And I could rant about Memento for thousands of words. ;-) He also wrote Icon... and for me, Icon has that whiff too of "if the characters didn't do something really OOC without adequate explanation, we would not have an episode".)
green_grrl
Jul. 30th, 2006 10:46 pm (UTC)
Aaaand, Kindler wrote Grace, too. Ba dum bump. A lot of my annoyance with it, over and above the resusitation of the S/J ship, is the lazy storytelling. :-)

Disclosure, I think, wins the award for just flat-out bad storytelling. (No way would Hammond have squirmed for 45 minutes without mentioning "Hey, we've made really important alliances!") Other than that, there are numerous episodes with OOC moments or "they're not watching their own show" moments -- it's the nature of the beast. It's just a question of whether the rest of the "fun" outweighs the Grr bits.

Divide and Conquer is the extreme case for me. I cannot buy 1) the S/J romance that really didn't appear on my radar before then, and 2) that Martouf would not have been tested, when every possible zatarc on the SGC side and the Tok'ra side had been. However I love it so much for the Jack and Daniel moments and the poignant Sam/Martouf arc -- and even the politics and the Anise arc were interesting.

(Oh, and I'm so glad I'm not the only one who doesn't like Cor Ai! I feel like it's some sacred cow of Teal'cdom that dare not be dissed. :-)
katie_m
Jul. 30th, 2006 09:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah, you know, Rodney can hallucinate anything he wants, that doesn't bother me. But you don't tell the object of your fantasies about them when she's been reasonably clear they're undesired. (This is why I hate the kiss in Resolution, or whatever it was, so much; DO NOT GIVE THE MAN MIXED SIGNALS, SAM, YOU'RE JUST ENCOURAGING HIM.) Sam was well within her rights to be vocally skeeved, because it was skeevy behavior on Rodney's part.

That was the first ep showing the Prometheus under somebody's command, and therefore from the very start they undermined the idea because there was SG-1, muddying the issue. Bah.

At least in Memento it was obviously problematized, though; they argued over it.
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 09:41 pm (UTC)
Mixed signals is actually at least something Sam does a lot, but I'm with you on that.

And yeah -- at least in Memento, the commander *tried* to have a backbone. They just don't even try any more, and that bugs.
katie_m
Jul. 30th, 2006 09:11 pm (UTC)
It would have worked better if Rodney had deflated it by rolling his eyes and going “Hah very hah, yes, you’re very funny” and then just moved along.

Yeah, I agree. But then, like I said in my post, Cam's behavior toward Rodney was interestingly illustrative of Cam, so that's something.

And again I felt like the writers forget that Elizabeth is a career diplomat who has in her time been presented with stupider tchotchkes then a gourd with a candle in it. She HAS to possess a better diplomatic poker-face than THAT. Please.

I know, right? Sigh.
eregyrn
Jul. 30th, 2006 09:45 pm (UTC)
*nods* I don't have a problem with Cam being a hardass towards Rodney, at all. I just could have done without belaboring the lemon joke, and would have liked Rodney to have had some more spine, going back at Cam for being a hardass.

Yet, on the other hand, I didn't mind *some* of Rodney's abjectness in the face of what was being dished out to him. I thought that the bit where Rodney's starting to say that he finds Sam's insane risk-taking sexy, and he bites that off when Cam *looms* at him, pretty funny, and reasonable. So I didn't object to the entire thing, just some parts where I thought they overplayed it a bit.

With that bit with Elizabeth, I'm going to assume that she just wasn't trying, because she'd already decided she was unimpressed with Lucius. Of course, if she was really such a pro, she'd turn on her diplomatic powers regardless of how she felt about the guy or the situation, but... nevermind.
green_grrl
Jul. 30th, 2006 10:30 pm (UTC)
I have a hate-on for how the whole lemon thing got started. Rodney's more than proved himself in Atlantis. John's been friendly-fun with him practically from the beginning (e.g., playing with the personal shield). Yes Rodney's annoying and John can be snappish, but they really are close and john really does respect him. Then cocky flyboy too-cool-for-school Cam shows up and John wants to play with the in-crowd and impress them by picking on the nerd, right from the start. He totally ditched his best friend for cool cred. So SO ugly.

Cam protecting Sam, like you, I can buy into. I'm not really wild about Sam's treatment of Rodney though. She admittted to Vala that they would need Rodney, but didn't want him to know. Same after Cam chased him off with the lemon -- admitted afterwards he was the one who'd get it done. In the end it was Rodney who came up with the winning plan to use two nukes in succession, for which he got no props. She also seemed in Redemption to have come to some equilibrium with him and his crush on her -- which is really more puppyish than skeevy. But here she's far more Eeew and mean about it than necessary.

The more I think about it the more I want to smack John and Sam the writers repeatedly with blunt objects. (Why yes, I am a total Rodney fangirl. Can you tell? ;-)
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