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SciFi Friday: SG1, SGA 08-18-06


SG-1 10.06: 200

Wow. So… at this point, **is** it possible to say anything about “200” that everyone on my flist hasn’t already said? Mmm, probably not… but what the hell…

I loved it. It, and good bit of the attendant meta that went along with it (like interviews and behind the scenes stuff, etc.), just made me feel this huge, warm, squishy affection for My Big Geeky Show. Because **they** were so clearly feeling it. I felt like it was oozing out all over the screen.

Mind you, I haven’t always felt that way about some of the times when SG-1 has done humor eps. There’s this fine line, between laughing-at and laughing-with. There have been times in the past where I’ve felt an edge to their send-up eps, where I felt it was closer to laughing-at. So I can’t really put my finger on what was different in “200”, but this time, when they said “it’s a love letter to the fans”, I really felt like… it was. And I felt their love for it, too, which I guess is important to me. So it really worked for me on that level, and I was really pleased by that, because I’d been kind of apprehensive going into it, due to past experiences.

To get some nitpicks out of the way: it actually felt a little slower-paced than I expected it to. Going into it, it sounded like they had **so much** to cram in that I expected the pace to feel frenetic, and instead, there were some bits that, yes, like an SNL skit, I felt went on a **little** too long. Primarily, I felt that way about invisible!Jack, and about the marionettes sequence. I didn’t think they were **fatally** long or anything. I just felt, even at the time, “wow, they’re staying with this longer than I would have thought” (and I had time to think it).

And I was surprised – and disappointed in retrospect – that they didn’t bring Jack in until the 4th act. Looking back on it, I realize that he was actually **present** throughout it a lot more than it seemed (the extended previouslies; invisible!Jack; puppet!Jack). But still. I sort of expected him to show up in person earlier, I guess, and for him to be doing some of the pitching more actively himself. I’m not, like, mad about it, or anything. I just feel sort of “… huh.” (Knowing that he was shooting the SGA ep simultaneously may explain some of that, I guess.)

But other than those things… whoa! We all laughed a **lot**. (Heck, it even got a bunch of full-throated laughs out of my_tallest, and that’s not easy to do, especially after the work week he’d had.) I just loved the level of batshittery in the whole thing. I loved all the big set-pieces, but I also loved a lot of really little things they did, quick “blink and you’ll miss ‘em” jokes.

I thought sneaking the Furlings into the **previouslies**, for gods’ sake, was hysterical. And OF COURSE they were Ewoks. Of course. But KOALA Ewoks, with really **obvious** fake heads, which somehow made it even better. But you know what I loved the most out of that bit? The way SG-1 fails and beams out with a little wave right before the planet blows up, and the last shot is on the frustrated Furling guys, and the one is pounding his fist on the console in despair. Why? Just because, all SG’s alien allies over the years have always been so **maddeningly** calm and superior and impertrubable. It was just so great to finally see a Superior Race losing its shit. “… damn **POUND** those **POUND** TAU’RI!!!”

I also liked them slipping in the little bit about the cell-phone reception 28 floors under the Mountain. Nice one.

The whole “title sequence” snark was probably my first real, helpless big laugh.

ZOMBIES! Eating braaaaaains!!! WALTER’S brains! Poor Walter! (but he was ALL OVER this ep, as well he should be.) Particular liked Cam’s “badass” arm-crossing maneuver. Oh, he wants to be Teal’c **so bad**!!! (And of course, yes – hey, look. Zombies are **already canon** in SG-1. Tel’chak device! Couldn’t be easier!)

The whole invisible!Jack sequence was pretty darned funny. I thought it was great meta snark (possibly, along with the foregoing dialogue) on the whole “where’s Jack?” issue – but now I love it about 10 times more, since finding out that it was something they originally came up with when they didn’t know they’d be getting RDA back for the ep, as a way to “work Jack in” without having him there… and then they kept it in **anyway**. The whole story about the coffee mug? OMG!!! That’s a level of meta that makes my BRAIN HURT. (If you haven’t read the article or seen the Inside special, basically they wanted to show the floating coffee mug walking down the corridor beside Teal’c, to indicate invisible!Jack. Which, obviously, anybody in a green-screen suit could do. Except it so happened that RDA **was** on the set that day. So even though they **had** RDA, they still put the green-suit **on him** so that **he** could play himself **being invisible**. Okay!)

Aside from that, the dog driving the truck was my favorite part of that bit. (I wonder whose dog that was?) Followed closely by MS’s delivery on “Ohhhh yes, he **likes** being invisible.”

The framing device they used to get Vala trying to pitch “The Wizard of Oz” to Martin under the pretext of it being an actual adventure she’d had – I liked that. Because otherwise, how **do** you pitch Oz with a straight face? But I also thought that was a nice nod to Vala’s con-woman aspect. Sooooo… okay, Sam as Glinda, sort of. (I liked that it was Stargateized, too, up to a point.) Man, **SO** much fannish speculation growing out of a still from a scene that lasted for, like, seconds! Landry as Oz seemed a little odd to me… until I thought of it as being the way **Vala** sees him, as the person with the ultimate authority over her place at the SGC, to whom she needs to appeal. But what really KILLED in that bit was the expression on lion!Daniel’s face, and the Ubiquitous Coffee Mug. **Perfect**. (Teal’c’s tinman codpiece, on the other hand, **still** worries me.)

I even liked the fake-out sequence that ended up with blowing up Cheyenne Mountain. Because, you know, what the heck – how often do you get the chance to do that?

The whole “hanging the lantern” bit was nicely meta and also nicely recursive, of course, since they did it a number of times in the ep. (Although, they then turned **right around** and gave an actual example of it in the SGA episode that came right after… which, having just pointed the technique out to us, really made THAT stand out even more than it normally would have.) So – ha ha, guys. But you don’t get a free pass on that device just because you pointed out to us that you know that we know that you do it.

The Trek rip-off was… trippy. Okay, look – I know that I am a BIG GEEK. I was actually a teensy bit distracted by trying to make sense of the trim colors on their (extraordinarily ugly) uniforms, until I realized that no two people had the same color anyway and gave up.

Cam as Kirk was… a given. Sam as… who **was** she? I kind of got the feeling she was Uhura, and yet also sort of… Sulu? Chekov? Whichever – the “doink!doink!” sound effect when she blinked? (I didn’t catch it the first time, only on the second watching.) Wow.

Teal’c with his uniform open to his navel… just BECAUSE. You know, I’m honestly surprised it had sleeves at ALL. And at first glance, Daniel seemed to be doing Spock, but I realized on rewatch that actually, his **manner** was all McCoy (along with the greyed hair); I think he even said "Dammit --!" Anyway, great nonsensical dialogue all around. And nice cameo from Brad Wright, who did an extremely creditable job as Scotty. (I had a thought later that it also would have been fun meta if they’d roped in Paul McGillion for that cameo, and then on top of it given him a “… I’m an engineer, not a (whatever)” line, just because, HAR!)

WB!SG-1… no words. Just… **damn**. Also, pretty scary.

I also found the Gilligan’s Island joke even funnier after I heard that they’d actually kind of planned to **do** a Gilligan’s Island sequence before cutting it because they had too much else to do.

FARGATE! NOW IT’S FOR REAL!

And WOW did that go by in a flash! But it was great, nonetheless. Every nonsensical curse-word in the Farscape repetoire… **loved** Vala/Aeryn’s double-take when she and Daniel/Crichton come face to face… almost as if she was expecting a slightly different face on Crichton… :D AT’s staggering entrance really nailed Chiana… and THOR! THOR AS RYGEL! **dies**

Everybody teaming up to punk Cameron regarding Jack having fathered him back in 1969… very cute. I can’t quite decide if that was supposed to be something they had worked out beforehand, or if it was all spontaneous. Whichever – very funny. But everybody knows that if ANYone fathered Cameron back in 1969, it would have to have been Daniel…

And now we come to the marionettes…

Okay, look. Here’s the thing. I have this GIANT SQUICK about marionettes. I can’t quite put my finger on it – it’s some kind of monkey-brain thing and I think a lot of it has to do with the eyes. Muppet-type puppets I’m fine with. Muppets I adore. But not marionettes.

So I wasn’t looking forward to that sequence. And I actually watched it with a lot of quick darting looks and then mostly hiding my eyes and listening to the dialogue. Because okay, those were pretty good puppets, but still – DISTURBING.

Yet I was pleasantly surprised by that sequence overall. As I said, I think it was a little bit too long. But it was darned funny. Don S. Davis giving voice to Hammond and getting to say stuff that he never ever gets to say (“Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning!”): gold. The egregiously bad wigs on Sam and Daniel: gold. (Yet, ironically? The hair on the Jack puppet was better than Jack’s hair was for the entire first and second season. And that’s just **sad**.) Puppet!Daniel's SPASTIC writing, especially when he circles the Earth symbol on the console: gold. That whole thing with Jack rhapsodizing about finding a big, bald alien with lots of muscles to add “new meat” to the team? GOLD.

Puppet!Walter doing the entire dialing sequence as “lit up”, and then with that pause right before he says “Chevron seven: ALSO lit up” – SOLID GOLD.

But what I liked best about that sequence was the fact that as they were all standing there by the open Gate, working up the gumption to go through it, we really did comment to each other about “how can marionettes go through the Gate? What about the strings?” Therefore, following the concept to its logical conclusion, having them go through, having the strings cut off when the event horizon cuts off, and having the marionettes fall down in a heap on the other side? PRICELESS. (Evilly-laughing Teal’c was a bonus.)

So finally, we get real Jack coming in. I thought that was a somewhat curiously underplayed moment, actually. Really low-key reaction to him. But I really liked the meta from Daniel and Sam (“No, there’ll be spoilers” – “Are you kidding? It’ll be in the **commercial**.”)

PI!Teal’c was a gem. Getting Isaac Hayes to do the voice-over? **Damn**! (Granted, they have an “in” with him now, he’s been a Jaffa for them, but still…)

Loved the little Threads/Moebius shout-out, with Cam and Vala self-insertion, and Jack’s “You weren’t there!” Oh, Jack. If only you knew what they’ve been doing to your cabin. (Destroying years’ worth of credibility you’ve carefully built up with the locals, for a start.)

So the wedding – very well done. Loved that it was Vala’s suggestion… but who exactly was doing the envisioning? From the way Daniel reacted, I’d **almost** have to say it was him, in which case the whole J/D bit takes on an interesting twist… I was actually really glad that I was spoiled for that bit (thank you, Destina!), because it was played pretty softly and I’m not sure I would have caught it if I hadn’t been looking for it. But my god – they put a slashy joke in there, and they didn’t screw it up! No grimacing! No homophobia! It was just sort of sweet – and then Thor beamed down, and Sam and Vala beamed down, and that was sort of sweet too, and they did the obligatory thing where Sam still calls him “Sir”, and then manages to call him “Jack” (**he** at least avoided saying “Carter”, which is always a good sign in a shipfic), and they all posed very nicely.

ETA: Thanks to both moonshayde and green_grrl for correcting me. He does say "Carter". Even though I was looking for it, I didn't hear it, though I could see his "c'mon!" gesture to her. As I said above -- I thought that whole sequence had kind of soft sound, and my TV's not the greatest, so I had to crank up the volume before I could really hear it. In a meta sense, I'll definitely give them this. It's pretty funny to have Jack admonish Sam for continuing to call him "sir" and wanting her to call him "Jack" when *he* can't lose the "Carter"!

I thought the look in Jack’s face when they got back to the briefing room after that was sort of priceless. :) And Martin’s “torture the audience on **purpose**” line was funny, too, but with an edge to it.

My kingdom for those Brokeback outtakes mentioned in the TV Guide interview!!! Seriously, who at Bridge do I have to bribe?

(Katie_M, remember how I said that if they give us a really meaty and substantial Jack in **mumble-mumble**, I would be happy and I would never ask for anything ever, ever again? And you said, yeah… and we are both such BIG LIARS? Well… so I am. I’m sorry. But I **have** to put these on The List. I HAVE TO.) (Besides – it’s still a mystery what sort of Jack we’ll wind up with in… you know. Except in that same TV Guide interview, RDA himself used the words “meaty and substantial” to describe what he’s been told it will be so… **s00per crossed fingers**!)

The Gateroom sequence at the end was kind of loose and wacky, with Jack inviting everybody in earshot, it seemed, to come jaunt through the Gate with them. But it was cute, too, and touching – especially when they got to the point of asking Walter. Him disappearing from the control room window and reappearing “seconds” later at the blast door having “changed” into the black BDUs “on the way” was the last great visual gag that I just loved.

(That is not, however, Walter’s first trip through the Gate. I’m going to have to go digging, but… there is an ep where Hammond winds up going offworld to, like, the Alpha Site, or something, and Walter is there. I distinctly remember at the time saying, “Hey! Look! Walter got to go offworld! Go, Walter!” So, yeah.)

And then! Original SG-1 lines up to go through, with the new folks coming after them, and AWWWW!!!!

The epilogue with all the fake stuff about Wormhole X-Treme’s 200th ep – that was all pretty fun, as well. I swear to god, I almost did not recognize David DeLuise. And the ribbing of RDA and MS and Daniel fans and the whole thing there -- **daaaaaaaamn*. Point-ed. But also very funny.

ETA2: Okay, WAIT. I'm seeing several sources listing that as PETER DeLuise. In which case, obviously, multiply that "I did not recognize" above SEVERAL times. Is it *REALLY*??? You know... I was sort of noticing that a lot of the sequences where we had Peter commenting on something looked like footage from older Lowdown specials, rather than contemporary. But I wasn't watching for that all that closely. (The absence of commentary from other regular producers besides BW and RCC didn't occur to me until the very end of the special, as I said. And of course, I watched the special *after* seeing the ep and becoming convinced that was DDL.) The thing that still freaks me out about this is... okay, if that's Peter? Multiply the "slimmed down and buffed up" by a zillion, as well. But that's not what bothers me -- it's his hair. It just looks *so* different from what I expect of Peter. Man, I need to go back and look at him and then look at him in the special several more times.

And the closing on the poor Teal’c-analog character (who in the 100th ep there was a running gag about him never getting any lines) getting to deliver the lovely little speech with the Asimov quote -- **tears up**.

**SQUISHES THE SHOW AND EVERYONE ON IT**



SGA: The Real World

Let’s be honest. Whenever a show pulls an ep like this – and it’s not like a whole bunch of shows haven’t done this ep, so I can't get worked up about "oh, it's ripping off Buffy" – the dramatic tension does not come from the question of whether it will ACTUALLY turn out that the last two years of Elizabeth’s life, the whole Atlantis mission, not to mention **10 years** of Stargate Command, was her delusion. Of course not. Who’s in the credits? The City of Atlantis, for a start. So, okay. Nobody who’s watching is ever really in danger of thinking that the show is about to go off in this wacky direction and change the reality of both Stargate shows as we have known them.

That being true, where **does** the dramatic tension come from? For me, it comes from wondering… so, given that this is a mindfuck, who or what is causing it? Why? To what ends? And, what does the character have to do, in order to get back to “reality”? (Will it be a matter of the character being able to do anything, or is it a matter of the character needing to be rescued by the others?)

For that reason, I didn’t quite like the structure of the ep. In situations like this, I like being in the Limited POV of the trapped character/s, gradually finding out along with them as they pull clues together towards the solution. (I guess for me, a primary example of a story with that type of structure would be SG-1’s “Beneath the Surface”.)

Thus, I didn’t like it that much when, halfway through the ep, it pulled out of the fake-world to show us what was going on in Atlantis, which was everybody standing around Elizabeth’s bedside, medico-technobabbling and just **telling** us what the problem was. I didn’t like it because it jerked me out of the slow build-up within the dream-world of figuring out along with Elizabeth what was going on. And I didn’t like it that much because I found much of that medico-technobabbling really nonsensical, and that just kind of irritated me.

We also couldn’t help but notice that the writer of this ep, Carl Binder, utilized (through Rodney, several times) the “hanging the lantern” device that the SG-1 ep “200” had just mocked the hour before. Not sure if we would have noticed it if they hadn’t just pointed it out to us, of course – but given that, the proximity made the device seem kind of… sad. (There are several points, when they reach the desperation stage, where Rodney is used to hang the lantern, that is, to say that something is stupid, or to call for a “reality check” on what the other characters are saying.)

Now, here is a question. The explanation for why these nanites were in Elizabeth doing this to her was linked to the end of the last episode, when the Asuran guy, Niam, tried to throttle her. In this ep, Rodney says, “in that brief moment of contact he infected her with nanites” that are now trying to take her over.

I can remember back to last ep. They also helpfully show a flashback. In the flashback, when Niam is throttling her, the others leap to pry his hands from her throat, which of course makes sense. But that… provided Niam with a brief moment of skin-to-skin contact with others besides Elizabeth. So why didn’t he infect them all with nanites and try to take over multiple “hosts”? That would have increased the chance of success, for one thing. And another question: since the return to Atlantis, there must have been multiple opportunities for Elizabeth to touch others before she fell visibly ill, and wound up in isolation. So again, why weren’t the nanites more aggressive in trying to spread themselves to multiple hosts? If taking over the commander of Atlantis was a good plan, wouldn’t taking over all of the command team, all the regular characters, be an even BETTER plan? Ehn.

At any rate… what we would have liked to see would have been for Elizabeth to encounter other regular characters as inmates in the asylum along with her. Perhaps, having her trying to enlist their help… only to find out in the end that they are all just tools of the thing that is trying to defeat her, and thus they aren’t reliable allies. Or something. That would have been a nice other-shoe, because the "betrayal" by Jack would have been peanuts compared to the sense of betrayal if it had been the Atlantis characters, particularly if the audience had been speculating along with Elizabeth that the others were "real", in the sense of, also trapped along with her in this thing.

That said – I did find some of the stuff they did reasonably effective. I liked the recurring “monster” that turns out to be John, who is the symbol of her trying to break through to reality and that the nanites are therefore cloaking as a monster to make it an obstacle to her connecting with him/it. I liked the bit with the Gate symbols on the cards. And I liked the bit in her bathroom when she looked up and had no facial features – that was **seriously** creepy.

And of course, I liked Jack. JACK! Oh, honey.

Jack – even though of course it never **was** actually Jack – was all the more satisfying for two reasons. First, because I’d just come off of “200”, in which, as I remarked, we got less real Jack than I had been expecting. And second, because after that first scene he was in, talking to her in the hospital, we became convinced that that was all we were going to get of him in **this** ep (that was before I remembered seeing spoiler pics that showed him in other scenes), and I was all set to be disappointed about that because I thought he’d be in it more. And then he was! So that made me all happy.

What I liked about Jack in the ep – aside from the fact that, hello, it was **Jack** -- was the way that he was played, which effectively made him so subtly not-Jack throughout the whole thing. How he was more relaxed-seeming, and friendlier, and how that fit in with not-SGC-Jack but rather with UN-Jack or NATO-Jack or whatever her mind was supposed to accept him as being. I realize that part of that was just, more of RDA bleeding through into “Jack”, because he was rusty at the character (this was also true of “200”), and also because, I read him remarking in an interview, he was a little unsure of how they wanted him to play it. Whatever the basis for it, I thought it worked well.

It also intrigued me. I thought the psychiatrist was a fairly straightforward tool for the nanites to use. As far as I could tell, he wasn’t meant to be anyone whom Elizabeth knew. That made Jack, as well as her mother, much trickier tools.

I kind of wish, just from a curiousity standpoint, that we could know what character they would have used in the Jack role, back in the planning stages for this ep, before they got the chance to use RDA. I’m kind of assuming that the ep concept came first, and then the concept was altered in order to use him. Jack was a very particular tool. Someone Elizabeth knew in the real world, but didn’t know that well (unlike her mother). Someone in authority. Someone she would be likely to call on for help, maybe? And also, to be effective, someone familiar to the audience (so they can spot the wrongness in the character). It makes me wonder whether they originally intended Caldwell to be in that role. And if not him, then who.

As it is – Jack makes a certain amount of sense. Yet the relationship Elizabeth is depicted as accepting having with him is curiously cordial, even friendly. More than I expected from the amount that we have actually seen the characters interacting on-screen.

Part of that may be due to a gap of unknown length between Jack becoming the head of the SGC, and the Atlantis expedition departing. (Do we know the length of that gap, actually? Anyone?) Prior to that, he and Elizabeth did not have very much contact at all. She and **Daniel** did, certainly – all those months when Jack was frozen in Antarctica. But not her and Jack. Yet it’s plausible that they worked together a lot while planning the Atlantis expedition, so… okay. I can believe that they’d progressed to a point where Jack was indeed telling her to call him “Jack”, at least in some circumstances. And that in turn, he represents someone trustworthy and comforting to her.

As I say, the episode **could have** picked a number of characters for that role. But it wound up being Jack, and that just sort of says interesting things to me about the way Elizabeth sees him. Indeed, that she does see him, regards him in a certain way, that I didn’t really know about before.



SCI FI Inside: Stargate SG-1’s 200th Episode

I put this last even though it was broadcast first, because we didn’t watch it **before** “200”, not wanting to be any more spoiled than we already were. So I finally just watched it. And it makes me want to give the entire show and everyone on it an even bigger **HUG** than before.

Now, frankly – the whole running gag with Gary Jones going around pathetically asking if he can be in the ep? Didn’t work for me. That is the type of humor I was describing above that’s just a little bit too much on the “mean” side, and I’m not into it. I realize it was all just a big fake-out, since obviously, Walter is **all over** the 200th episode (they even made a Walter puppet!), and everything. But even knowing that, those bits still just made me cringe-y.

The rest, however, was adorable. **Opening** on RDA talking about mpreg for Jack? **dies** (Especially preceded by talk of “possibly after ten years we might share a romantic moment”, cut in such a way that you don’t know who the other half of the “we” is, and as usual, it's completely ungendered… but, um, given that he goes directly from that to talk about “O’Neill gets pregnant”…?)

I just got a whole lot of “Awww!” moments out of it. Like, AT, MS, and CJ talking about the auditions (CJ’s “… and **10** Teal’c’s, and they look like the Rainbow Coalition…”).

The Rodney bit in the middle: HAR!

And, okay? RDA trying to sell, with a straight face, that **Hathor** was his favorite villain ever? **DIES** But especially for the bit where he’s like, “… and I stole her headdress and wore it one year for Halloween, and I was just the belle of the ball…” UM… But then, you know, he pulls it out by being all boy-geeky about getting to shoot all the Big Guns. (**sigh**…)

And, ahhhh… the MacGyver practical joke in “Solitudes” is indeed a classic. But did anyone else get the feeling that maybe the reason the only practical jokes they REALLY told us about were that one, and the sort of low-key one they played on Chris Judge, because they realized belatedly that those were the only ones they could **admit** to on prime-time television, even cable?

As I mentioned above, the whole thing where they actually show us how they put RDA in the green-suit to be invisible!Jack, since what the heck, they had him there on-set, even though it was entirely a sequence they’d originally come up with thinking they’d have to work around **not** having him… heh.

I was strangely fascinated and amused by watching them do several takes of the sequence where they’re running from and shooting at the Replicators. MS and AT and CJ snarking at each other and teasing each other is adorable.

The sequence about CJ’s fluctuating weight was pretty cute, too. (“I like to call them my ‘I don’t care about physical appearance I’m an ARTIST’ years… hoooo boy!”) And on Sam’s hair? I’m sorry, Amanda. I’m really, really, really sorry. But the long hair is a BIG NO. You are cute as a button with shorter hair, get over it.

I have heard tell that there are S/Jers out there who are **mightily offended** that AT picked David over RDA as the better kisser. Which… **dude**. First, get over it. Sheesh. And second, she hardly dissed RDA. She just pointed out, quite reasonably, that due to the different relationship Sam is written as having with the two characters, Sam’s kisses with Jack tend to be kind of… sweet, rather than full-out tonsil-sucking PASSION. And thus she had more fun overall getting to kiss David. Which makes total sense. I mean, DUH.

(It also occurs to me to wonder if that was AT sort of lobbing that grenade into the fandom, and waiting to see if it has any repercussions at this convention that she has convinced RDA to go with her to, in England. Her having made that statement – presuming, I guess, either that the special will show in England or be seen somehow before that con, or else that all the fans attending it will have heard about this – I simply **cannot imagine** that, once she and RDA are up on stage together, nobody in the audience will bring it up. Let’s not be silly. Of course they will.)

You know, I was kind of interested to note that basically, the PTB guys that talked the most in the special, for it, were BW, RCC, and MW. PDL, a little. M&M, almost not at all. I didn’t even realize this until the very end, when they had that oddly-shot comment from Mallozzi, and then I realized there had been a dearth of him and Mullie in the special, and no DK at all. (I also noticed that although DK is a producer on SG-1 and he writes a **lot** of scripts, he is not credited at **ALL** as a writer on “200”. Hmm…)

I thought it was a little strange that this special re-used so much footage that I recognized from past "Lowdown" specials -- the one they made for season 7, when MS had just returned, and I think the one they made the next year as well. I guess I'm not sure why that surprises me -- but it did.

Finally, I found the comment at the end, from RDA, kind of interesting. How he’d asked Brad and Robert about whether this was an ep that stood alone, or was part of the season arc – and they told him, no, “this is a completely different entity, it stands by itself”.

So there you go, folks who want to debate whether any of it (the framing bits, certainly) are “canon” or not. That’s a peek at the way the people on the show intend it, at least.

**LOVES.**

Comments

( 17 comments — Leave a comment )
moonshayde
Aug. 21st, 2006 04:09 pm (UTC)
I thought Jack did call Sam "Carter" at the wedding scene? I was pretty sure he did, right between her calling him Sir and Jack.

And I am pretty sure Daniel was McCoy. He did say, "Dammit, Cam!" just like McCoy says, "Dammit, Jim!"

But man the episode was fantastic.

*stills feels the love*

Now, I await the "meaty and substantial" role that is coming up next half. Better have him interact with Daniel.
eregyrn
Aug. 21st, 2006 04:13 pm (UTC)
I rewatched late last night, and was specifically looking for it -- no, he didn't say "Carter" at any point. I think he said "nice entrance" after their arrival (or Daniel said that?), and he gave her a look after the "Sir", and once she said "Jack", I *think* he said "Good" or "Better" or something like that. :) But now you've got me feeling unsure. The only thing I'm 99.9% sure of is, no "Carter", since I was specifically listening for it.
moonshayde
Aug. 21st, 2006 04:16 pm (UTC)
Well if he said Better at some point then that would have sounded like Carter. Similar sounds. So I'll have to check out the scene again and see if I can catch what was said.
eregyrn
Aug. 21st, 2006 04:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah. And for me, I thought the sound mix on that whole scene was pretty soft. I found it hard to hear the audience comments and the J/D thing, as I said, if I hadn't been looking for it I might have missed it.
moonshayde
Aug. 21st, 2006 04:23 pm (UTC)
I just watched it again. (Yes, I'm anal.) I'm still pretty sure he called her Carter. I'd be happy for someone to point out that I'm wrong. But that is what I keep hearing.

I also didn't really consider if the scene was something that Daniel was imagining. Vala pitched the idea and I just assumed that it was Vala's interpretation. But Daniel does make a face so who knows.
eregyrn
Aug. 21st, 2006 05:12 pm (UTC)
I was just thinking that what would *really* help would be to turn on closed-captioning...
eregyrn
Aug. 22nd, 2006 04:33 pm (UTC)
Nope, you and green_grrl were right and I was wrong. My TV's sound is kinda crappy (actually, my hearing isn't the greatest, either), so I really had to crank up the volume to finally hear it once I knew exactly where to look for it. But it does go, as green_grrl noted:

Jack: Nice entrance.
Sam: Sorry, sir.
Jack: Carter? (c'mon gesture)
Sam: Jack.
Jack: Thank you.

I didn't think about who was doing the "envisioning" until the second viewing. I noticed that more for a lot of the sequences the second time around.

Obviously there are times when one of the sequences apears to *jump off* from one person reacting to the suggestion, but then when we come back from it, all of the characters react as if they've "seen" it. Which I take it is supposed to mean each of them envisioned their own version.

Like, for teen!SG-1 -- that "jumps off" from Daniel. He's the one the focus is on as we go into the sequence. But coming back from it, they go around the room to have everyone say "No".

And it's similar with the wedding. Vala suggests it -- but it would make more sense then if Vala was the bride and Daniel the groom, wouldn't it? From the look she gives him? Plus the fact that she barely knows Jack at all and there is actually just no reason she would know about the whole Sam/Jack thing. (I would think if Vala were to imagine Sam marrying anyone, based on what Vala has been able to observe, it'd be Cameron.)

So Vala looks at Daniel. But then we get taht Daniel reaction shot, the narrowing of eyes. I really do think *that's* our "jump off" into the sequence. It's "his" vision... sort of. Because again when we come back, others react to it, or at least to a vision they had of it themselves. (And I seriously would not describe Jack's expression as welcoming of the idea...)

I don't know if I'm over-reading this whole thing or not. It just struck me on the rewatch.
moonshayde
Aug. 22nd, 2006 04:41 pm (UTC)
I'm just having trouble envisioning it as a Daniel daydream. Vala pitched the idea, but I'm starting to think more and more it was a group thing like the teen SG-1 daydream.

But I think we're all reading too much into an episode that was basically crack anyway ;)
green_grrl
Aug. 22nd, 2006 04:57 pm (UTC)
I don't know if it's possible to tease out who was doing the actual envisioning in all of them, since they're mainly just setups to do the gags (except Vala's Oz and Farscape, obviously). And you're right, they do have a kind of shared experience thing after each (the teen one reaction cracked me up!).

With the wedding one, I think we might have had shifting POV. (Work with me on this. ;-) I think Vala's thought was her and Daniel, which we didn't see, and that distracted Daniel at first. So the first POV is probably Cam and/or Teal'c thinking, "Wedding? In a sci fi movie? Boooring." (And also, "not me up there, no way" and also "Walter is a girlie man" -- heh!) The next POV is probably Daniel, who's thinking "Not me, uh uh Vala." So he's standing up there with Jack, but there's no bride in sight. It's a military-themed TV movie so he knows there probably can't be a m/m wedding, but... *Daniel makes hopeful face at Jack* Then it's Sam's POV at the end, as evidenced by her goo goo eyes as they come out of the sequence. (And Jack read that easily enough and went Ew.) Whaddaya think? :-)
green_grrl
Aug. 21st, 2006 05:05 pm (UTC)
I heard it clearly the first time -- and I just rechecked. It goes: Niiice entrance." "Sorry, sir." "Carter." [c'mon gesture] "Jack."
eregyrn
Aug. 21st, 2006 05:11 pm (UTC)
Hmm. Well, if I'm completely wrong, I'll post a correction. I want to have another look/listen to it. As I said to Moonshayde, I found the sound-mix in the scene *really* soft, so... But I could have sworn, I *was* looking for it, and didn't hear it, just saw the "c'mon" gesture.
eregyrn
Aug. 22nd, 2006 04:26 pm (UTC)
Yup, I'm wrong! It's my crappy TV's sound. Or my crappy hearing. I had to really crank it up to hear him say it, but he did. Will edit the post. :)
surreallis
Aug. 21st, 2006 04:53 pm (UTC)
Nice write-up! I love that *most* fans are just taking this in stride and being happy about it.

I have to ask, did you get the subtle feeling during RDA's comments that he was sort of interested in coming back? I might be fusing the Inside special with the TV guide interview he did, but added to that thing he said about writing letters... hmmm. Of course, it might just be wishful thinking on my part. I know in the TV Guide interview he says he hasn't given any thought to doing more appearances yet, but *handwave* of course that's what he's going to *say* if he hasn't been invited yet. Double-hmmm.
eregyrn
Aug. 21st, 2006 05:14 pm (UTC)
Oh, I just *know* there is wankery going on out there over it! But the nice thing about interacting with the fandom through LJ now is that I can largely avoid it.

I felt like, between him on the special and him in the TV Guide interview, that he definitely missed it (all the "family" comments -- awww!)). That he'd probably be interested in doing a similar thing next year -- guest spots in a limited number of eps. I definitely didn't get the feeling that he was thinking in terms of coming back full-time, though.
green_grrl
Aug. 21st, 2006 05:23 pm (UTC)
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

Were we sitting side by side watching? ITA with everything you said! (Except the wedding Carter thing. Oh, and marionettes don't squick me. ;-)

200 was so much love and no stupid boy humor, except to point out their stupid boy humor. :-) (And yes, the Gary Jones gag in the special was just straight stupid boy humor. It would have been okay if it were a lot shorter, but the pacing dragged and it went on too long.)

And I had the same reaction when they cut to Atlantis in Real World -- I thought, "Isn't it too early to go there? I would have thought they would wait til the end." And then it turned out that everything they tried was pointless, and they might as well have just cut all that out.

I liked the recurring “monster” that turns out to be John
Aw, c'mon. I recognized that hair silhouette immediately. ;-)
katie_m
Aug. 21st, 2006 06:09 pm (UTC)
*squishy show-love*

(Katie_M, remember how I said that if they give us a really meaty and substantial Jack in **mumble-mumble**, I would be happy and I would never ask for anything ever, ever again? And you said, yeah… and we are both such BIG LIARS? Well… so I am. I’m sorry. But I **have** to put these on The List. I HAVE TO.) (Besides – it’s still a mystery what sort of Jack we’ll wind up with in… you know. Except in that same TV Guide interview, RDA himself used the words “meaty and substantial” to describe what he’s been told it will be so… **s00per crossed fingers**!)

Ha! I'm still sticking with Meaty Jack, but I'm happy to support your desires in this area. And I noticed that about the interview too, yay!
jenlev
Aug. 21st, 2006 09:40 pm (UTC)
oh yes to the love they showed for the show and the characters.

i just about fell over when they showed the furlings. of course they blew them up. hee!

i loved that walter was in so many scenes. and the way daniel commented about jack liking being invisible.

as for teal'c's tinman outfit....heh heh heh. also adored the look on daniel's face as the lion. too perfect.

the farscape bit was so delightful, and thor as rygel put me over the edge. good point about aeryn/vala's double take. hee!

also...the strings being cut as they went through the gate was priceless, as was teal'cs evil laugh.

and yay for the wedding scene, nicely done and thor was too funny presiding.

the ending walk through the gate made me sniffle in a good way. ah.

as for sga, i loved how jack was subtle about not being jack. nice glimpses of an edge that was very fine.

ps. oh the special, lots of fun. and i'd love to see a photo of rda in hathor's headdress.
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